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The Truth About Guantanamo Bay: Interview with Col. Gordon Cucullu

Ryan Mauro - 5/25/2006

Colonel Cucullu has recently traveled several times to Guantanamo Bay with General Paul Vallely to work on a forthcoming book on the subject. He is also the author of the best-selling book, Separated at Birth: How North Korea Became The Evil Twin, and is a frequent guest on Fox News Channel. He also contributed to War Footing: 10 Steps America Must Take To Prevail in the War for the Free World.

His military experience includes leading Green Beret A-Teams in Asia, managing military assistance to Central America, and serving as a political-military advisor to Paul Wolfowitz, who at the time was the State Department’s Assistant Secretary of East-Asia Pacific Affairs.

What were the goals of the staff of Guantanamo Bay?

The command is split between the U.S. Naval Station Guantanamo Bay commander, a Navy Captain and the Joint Task Force-Guantanamo (JTF-GITMO) which is commanded by a major general.

JTF-GITMO is in charge of the detainee operations including detention and interrogation. In 2002 when the camp was set up, these functions were split and didn’t work well.

The Mission of JTF is unique to the world. There has never been another detention/interrogation facility. It is a joint command-multi service, and is inter-agency as well. Representatives from the FBI, DOJ, DEA, DIA, DHA, CIA, NSA and others reside at the base and participate frequently. They supervise several sub-units such as the Joint Detention Operations Group, the Director of Intelligence Collection, the Behavioral Sciences Consultative Team, the food and medical services, guards, communications, and more.

The goal is to provide a secure, humane detention facility for unlawful enemy combatants, to conduct proper interrogation, and to coordinate efforts with other agencies including non-governmental organizations, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross which has a live-in representative there.

If the public could see inside the prison, would they be outraged by inhumane conditions?

They would be surprised by how clean, orderly and relatively benign things are given the fact that it is a detention center for some of the worst terrorists on the planet. There are several camps ranging from minimum security (Camp IV) to the maximum security (Camp V). Another camp (VI) is under construction. The latter two are based on the federal penitentiary system with the exception of having space for interrogation and a high-tech medical clinic inside. The concept is to minimize outside transit with the detainees. All exercise and recreation space is inside an internal compound.

Cells in maximum security camps are larger than in a federal penitentiary, are high-tech to prevent harm to detainees or guards, and are open to corridors so that detainees can converse and see others. The worst (about 10%) are segregated but not isolated. That’s an important difference.

In the minimum security camps, 10 detainees live in a dorm-like setting. They pray, eat, and interact daily. Most have recreation time. All the detainees have an Islamic prayer kit consisting of the Koran, oils, beads, and a rug with an arrow pointing to Mecca. The call for prayer sounds five times daily. Ramadan is observed (if they want to on an individual basis) by having pre-dawn and post-sunset meals. There is a special feast for Eid ul-Fitr.

Provisions are there for hygiene, massive medical oversight and care, and an extraordinary focus on feeding. I have an entire chapter written on the food service and nutrition. Americans might be somewhat upset to see that the detainees eat better than the American guards.

What are the motivations then of the organizations that want to shut down Guantanamo Bay?

There is an odd alliance between the old and new left and the Islamofascists. David Horowitz wrote a book, Unholy Alliance on this. It is very strange, and it is all anti-American and anti-Bush. I think there would still be activity but less if a Democrat was in the White House. Still there is an overwhelming desire to attack the moral certainty of the U.S. by undermining and using moral equivalencies. If the Taliban was bad then so is Abu Ghraib. If Al-Qaeda is inhumane, then so is the U.S. at Gitmo. It’s all smoke and ideological mirrors.

Are there any success stories that come out of Guantanamo Bay?

Several cells in the U.S. have been broken up. The Lackawanna Six and the outfit in Cleveland to name two. Some attacks have been thwarted. That is classified. We’ve rolled up financial and money laundering routes that Al-Qaeda used, found organizers and recruiters, and have engineers in custody who were IED instructors, one of which had a MS from Purdue.

Interesting fact: More people have died in Ted Kennedy’s car than at Gitmo.

What did you learn that surprised you the most?

That we’re still getting actionable intelligence from these guys. Much of this pertains to on-going actions like explosives, organization, recruiting, financial and future operations.

Did you get to speak with any terrorists?

No, we’re not allowed to speak to them even through an interpreter. They can speak with attorneys, the International Committee of the Red Cross representative, and others. We did get to observe on-going interrogations behind glass with a detainee, an interrogator and a translator. In one instance, the detainee ate a box of donuts the interrogator provides for him at every session. Torture?

How successful are the interrogations said to be? Is torture necessary?

Torture is not only unnecessary and strictly forbidden as is any physical abuse, but it is considered counter-productive. This was a surprise too, in that there are several women interrogators (none slinky and sleazy) who use the role of mother and sister as cultural bridges to get the detainees to talk. It’s all about rapport building and establishing mutual respect. The detainees know – or soon learn – that the interrogators can improve their lives with extra recreation and small rewards.

Some detainees brag constantly about how they killed Americans and want to kill more. They are proud of their achievements.

All interrogators have an elaborate, extensively staffed plan based on research, coordination with other agencies, and input by psychological, behavioral, medical and intelligence analysts. All interrogations are strictly supervised. For example, each camp has a field grade officer and senior NCO on the floor 24/7/365. There are elaborate standard operational procedures for everything and much, much supervision and inspection. This is not Abu Ghraib and cannot be.